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Was the "American Life" Album the reason for....


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2 hours ago, Liam said:

The album probably would have come off better if the artwork and focus on the singles weren't focused on the political climate. 

Should have, would have, I don't know, we will never. But what I'm sure about is that the artwork was as radical as the political climate, so it was interesting for her to push further in a minimal direction. She was in another spiritual and woken phase, and tried to be the grown-up in the room when everyone else was batshit crazy about underage Britney. Probably the last bold bet she made in her music career.

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4 hours ago, Liam said:

 Radio in the U.S. was already playing her less and less.  I had seen that decline starting with RAY OF LIGHT album.  Interestingly enough, "Beautiful Stranger", "Music", and "Die Another Day" all did get fair radio play in the U.S. 

The album probably would have come off better if the artwork and focus on the singles weren't focused on the political climate. 

The first statement makes no sense, clearly radio were not playing her less and less. It was about single choice at that time. You also forgot American Pie, that charted just on air play. 

The entire ROL / Music era were massive for her, however bad publicity with Swept Away, and then the American Life single with its cheesy rap, and it's anti American sentiment, unfortunately meant radio and the public (you also need to recognise that Americans are very patriotic) disowned her, and in a sad way she sealed her fate. No amount of promotion or explanation was going to change that.

Subsequent to this, she's had varied succeess and I think has turned the opinion around, but the music industry and that landscape is so different now, that again unfortunately it's not worked in her favour. 

Also, and this is a positive, she is a maverick, questioning "social norms", challenging peoples frames of reference, and that makes people uncomfortable, and it also means the public's view of her can be polarised, they either love her or hate her. 

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If memory serves correctly, I remember M mentioning she wanted to do an album with her brother in the style of Don't Tell Me. She pretty much did that with AL.

At the time, the album really had to grow on me (same with ROL and Music). I definitely learned how to appreciate them all musically and lyrically. 

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3 hours ago, Jackie said:

The first statement makes no sense, clearly radio were not playing her less and less. It was about single choice at that time. You also forgot American Pie, that charted just on air play. 

The entire ROL / Music era were massive for her, however bad publicity with Swept Away, and then the American Life single with its cheesy rap, and it's anti American sentiment, unfortunately meant radio and the public (you also need to recognise that Americans are very patriotic) disowned her, and in a sad way she sealed her fate. No amount of promotion or explanation was going to change that.

Subsequent to this, she's had varied succeess and I think has turned the opinion around, but the music industry and that landscape is so different now, that again unfortunately it's not worked in her favour. 

Also, and this is a positive, she is a maverick, questioning "social norms", challenging peoples frames of reference, and that makes people uncomfortable, and it also means the public's view of her can be polarised, they either love her or hate her. 

Again, I was referring to the U.S.  Radio was already diminishing for her when she released ROL.  "American Pie" did managed #29 based on radio airplay.  But in the U.S., that's nothing to get excited about.  No where in middle America did that song get played but maybe some big radio stations at the time. 

My point being, even though "Music" and "DIe Another Day" did well in the U.S. on radio, I had noticed radio airplay declined a lot since Ray of Light.

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On 5/27/2018 at 4:35 PM, thelioncourtheart_ said:

If anything, COADF is like what Light Years/Fever was to Kylie.

Kylie haters will never acknowledge that, right?

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On 5/27/2018 at 5:04 PM, Someone said:

As a damage control album, I prefer Bedtime Stories over Confessions On A Dancefloor. 

I think Madonna was in a very different place in 1994 as she REALLY needed to clean and soften her image in order to stop losing constructive criticism and fans especially in the US and the UK. Projects such as Body of Evidence and Dangerous Game (both released in 1993) did nothing but deteriorate her movie career even more... Additionally, the Erotica album (what really mattered to fans) never resonated well with a wider audience and the singles did struggle in the charts around the world. I believe what kept Madonna relevant at the time was her Girlie Show concerts even though it was considered her most sexual tour. She did manage to travel to places she had never visited before (the Middle East, Latinamerica, and Australia) selling out football stadiums and not just US arenas. Despite the fact that her David Letterman appearance was a total disaster she put out an album in October that got her good reviews and don't forget she was also campaigning for the role in Evita... and we all know the results in the end:)

On 5/28/2018 at 6:44 AM, LivingForLove94 said:

AL era was a complete mess, thank god RIT came and saved everything.

Don't forget Madonna was coming off of a new golden age (1998-2001), the drop in popularity was unbelievable.

COADF was a return to form, it was a new reinvention and it became an accomplished era. It was Madonnamania all over again.

The Re-invention Tour was the perfect closure to that era but it was also a 'safe' concert in terms of sexual content. However, it was the start of her obsession in including political messages in certain parts of her show... something not many people will enjoy. I'm not American so I've never cared about it as I see it more like social and historical awareness. The Confessions Tour continued this trend especially between the performances of Live to Tell and I Love New York... the rest was just about having fun. The greatest thing about this era is that she really gained new fans, especially people who were already tired of the hip hop scene dominating the radio.

On 5/28/2018 at 7:44 AM, Enrico said:

She always had great no. 1 singles with her ballads in the US: Crazy for you, TUTBMP, Take a bow. So Nothing fails could have been another one, if well promoted. But it didn't even received a video! It suffered the bad consequences of the AL video withdrawal, still one of her best, which also marked her loss of interest in tge music video form. You may not like AL as a song (I really like verse and chorus), but the original video is fantastic. Great art. Pity...

Maybe RIT was "damage control" after AL. As Arianne Phillips once said, it's the "hits tour"... M rediscovering her back catalogue, she knew she would please many.

Nothing Fails suffered the ignorance of the general audience mainly because it was released among a lot of projects: US singles and regional singles, a well commented duet with Britney, the MTV kiss, the GAP campaign, the Remixed & Revisited EP, the childrens' books, etc. Despite being extensively promoted at the small concerts she did in 2003 it never clicked on the radio (boycott I think?). Honestly, the only time I heard it was as a remix that seems to be an edit of the version included in Remixed & Revisited.

Finally, I agree with what Mrs Phillips said about the Re-invention Tour... Madonna had to stop being so dismissive of her old hits as American Life was really considered (unfairly) her worst flop ever. Her Ray of Light and Music glorious days on the radio were officially ended.

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2 hours ago, madgefan said:

Nothing Fails suffered the ignorance of the general audience mainly because it was released among a lot of projects: US singles and regional singles, a well commented duet with Britney, the MTV kiss, the GAP campaign, the Remixed & Revisited EP, the childrens' books, etc. Despite being extensively promoted at the small concerts she did in 2003 it never clicked on the radio (boycott I think?). Honestly, the only time I heard it was as a remix that seems to be an edit of the version included in Remixed & Revisited.

My favourite Madonna remix ever! (well, this and Paul Oakenfold's Hollywood)

The radio version of Nevins Mix is just a bit more radio friendly with additional beats and sounds, officially titled Radio Mix. Such a shame it never got the place it deserved. But Remixed & Revisited was a bit of a mess really, I know they had limited time to come up with something and fix things, but this didn't really help.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The lukewarm response to American Life probably pushed her in a different direction with both the tour and follow up album. But dance music wasn't really big at that time though especially not in the US so it wasn't really a recipe for guaranteed success. So I think "damage control" is an exaggeration.

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I guess she both wanted to go into a different directon from “American Life” as she hates to repeat herself, and needed to gain back her popularity. That’s why she went back to her basics and basically played to her strengths. 

 

Call me crazy but I also think Mariah’s success throughout 2005 also provoked Madonna. The Grammy drama adds to my conspiracy theory as well! :silly:

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Back in 2002/2003 just before the war, no one could criticise the president or the war without getting backlash. I remember Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt simply saying they were not sure the US should go to war and they were immediately labelled as anti-American and against the troops. France refused to go to war so French Fries were called Freedom Fries :stare:. The US was being childish and foolish at that time and Madonna was a victim of this stupidity.

I think also if she played it safe it was because of her children more than anything. The tension and anger was high back then, if Madonna had been single and without kids, I think she would have weathered the storm more. She really didn't change her tune, she just took her social/political message and wrapped it in glitter to make it more palatable. 

I will say that I found her annoying during the AL era. Very preachy and arrogant, telling everyone to let go of material things, then taking private jets and wearing designer clothes and wasting tens of thousands on a bloody photo shoot. I think this attitude during that time turned a lot of people off.

So I don't think AL was the only reason we got Confessions. A lot was going on in pop culture in the US. Madonna was being seen more and more as an intertnational dance artist, while the US was moving towards R&B/Hip Hop style music. Her relevancy was seen as slipping.

Plus she had Britney to contend with. Everyone basically felt she was 'the new Queen of Pop' and Madonna was an old has been, then Mariah stormed back with Emancipation and J-Lo was doing well in the charts and in film and I feel Madonna probably wanted to step up her game. 

 

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On 6/19/2018 at 8:39 PM, Turuncan said:

I guess she both wanted to go into a different directon from “American Life” as she hates to repeat herself, and needed to gain back her popularity. That’s why she went back to her basics and basically played to her strengths. 

 

Call me crazy but I also think Mariah’s success throughout 2005 also provoked Madonna. The Grammy drama adds to my conspiracy theory as well! :silly:

American Life was a repeat of Music. If anything, it expanded upon what she had already done musically, right down to the "uh, uh"s in Music and Die Another Day. Madonna has repeated herself many times, even though "Madonna never repeats herself" has become sort of a mantra in the fan community. It's simply not true.

The woman has done just about every look and sound under the sun, she's going to end up repeating something she's already done at some point. It's been 35 years. 

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On 5/30/2018 at 12:18 AM, madgefan said:

Kylie haters will never acknowledge that, right?

proxy.php?code=232364dec2df049365ed67571

I think Madonna was in a very different place in 1994 as she REALLY needed to clean and soften her image in order to stop losing constructive criticism and fans especially in the US and the UK. Projects such as Body of Evidence and Dangerous Game (both released in 1993) did nothing but deteriorate her movie career even more... Additionally, the Erotica album (what really mattered to fans) never resonated well with a wider audience and the singles did struggle in the charts around the world. I believe what kept Madonna relevant at the time was her Girlie Show concerts even though it was considered her most sexual tour. She did manage to travel to places she had never visited before (the Middle East, Latinamerica, and Australia) selling out football stadiums and not just US arenas. Despite the fact that her David Letterman appearance was a total disaster she put out an album in October that got her good reviews and don't forget she was also campaigning for the role in Evita... and we all know the results in the end:)

The Re-invention Tour was the perfect closure to that era but it was also a 'safe' concert in terms of sexual content. However, it was the start of her obsession in including political messages in certain parts of her show... something not many people will enjoy. I'm not American so I've never cared about it as I see it more like social and historical awareness. The Confessions Tour continued this trend especially between the performances of Live to Tell and I Love New York... the rest was just about having fun. The greatest thing about this era is that she really gained new fans, especially people who were already tired of the hip hop scene dominating the radio.

Nothing Fails suffered the ignorance of the general audience mainly because it was released among a lot of projects: US singles and regional singles, a well commented duet with Britney, the MTV kiss, the GAP campaign, the Remixed & Revisited EP, the childrens' books, etc. Despite being extensively promoted at the small concerts she did in 2003 it never clicked on the radio (boycott I think?). Honestly, the only time I heard it was as a remix that seems to be an edit of the version included in Remixed & Revisited.

Finally, I agree with what Mrs Phillips said about the Re-invention Tour... Madonna had to stop being so dismissive of her old hits as American Life was really considered (unfairly) her worst flop ever. Her Ray of Light and Music glorious days on the radio were officially ended.

Esther Ritchie just wasn't cut out to be a pop star. :laughing:

 

madonna-books-the-english-roses-63612.jp

 

All of Madonna's 2000s characters were taken from Kylie: the cowgirl, the Che Guevara, the disco queen, and the boxer. Kylie did all of these looks years prior. I honestly hated Madonna doing "characters" for her albums and was happy when MDNA-on she dropped it. That doesn't mean I don't want her to change her look but the 2000s were just too cartoonish. I like stylish Madonna, not Halloween costume Madonna. 

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On 5/28/2018 at 2:28 PM, discohub said:

Should have, would have, I don't know, we will never. But what I'm sure about is that the artwork was as radical as the political climate, so it was interesting for her to push further in a minimal direction. She was in another spiritual and woken phase, and tried to be the grown-up in the room when everyone else was batshit crazy about underage Britney. Probably the last bold bet she made in her music career.

I don't know about that. American Life, IMHO, just wasn't a good album. The artwork you speak of done by M/M Paris was dictated to them from a spread they had already done for a magazine. American Life didn't come off as organic. It sounded too much like the Kabbalah Center and the Berg family, along with Madonna trying to play the doting British housewife wagging her finger. It just didn't sound like her. It sounded like someone wishing they were this person they were playing. If you want to hear Madonna raw and just being herself, listen to Erotica. That came across as more truthful and sincere than American Life. 

2003: Esther Ritchie - "American Life"

nyc_roshhashanah2.jpg

like-a-scam-the-decline-of-celebrities-p

 

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On 23.06.2018 at 6:42 AM, Mauro said:

Madonna has repeated herself many times, even though "Madonna never repeats herself" has become sort of a mantra in the fan community. It's simply not true.

I know, I know. I am not one of those stans who put her on a pedestal for everything she does and simply believe in every myth about her.

However, what I meant was that “Confessions” was in a completely different direction from “American Life”.

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  • 4 months later...
On 5/25/2018 at 5:50 PM, madgefan said:

Remember when Madonna deliberately ignored her classics during the DWT? She received criticism from both the media and fans, some even believed it was 'her last BIG tour because of her age' lmao

Then a flop movie came and later American Life was released and did nothing but hurt (radio boycott, leaks, her website was hacked, video self-banning, plagiarism lawsuits, etc.) especially after the tremendous success of the Music era (Grammy and MTVs noms). Many of us didn't love American Life at the beginning but it certainly proved to be a grower. It does contain lovely and mature stuff, should have done better in the charts.

Weren't the MTV kiss and the guest stars part of Madonna's agenda to remain relevant? Britney was rocking the world with Toxic and Christina still enjoyed some success from her Stripped era. It made sense to me at the time...

The 2004 Re-invention Tour was a lifeboat commercially speaking but it only visited the same old places (except for Ireland) and the Confessions era was a major sucess mainly because of the ABBA sample and her gorgeous 70's look that are still remembered. Despite being totally gorgeous the following singles Get Together and Jump flopped.

Madonna ignored her American Like stuff until she started to consider some songs as interludes in both the Sticky & Sweet and MDNA tours. Suspicious? Maybe she felt the world needed to forget her political flop for some time, I don't know. What I appreciate is that she dared to play album tracks during the Tears of a Clown gigs. That was awesome and led me to believe it was the music she wanted to make at the time. Actually, I think American Life was the last time she really put her heart into the writing compared to Confessions which sounded totally muffled and redundant. Rolling Stone would say the former was made for our heads and the latter for our feet.

I don't think there's anything else to explain. Everyone knows what happened after Hard Candy and her departure from Warner.

 

I fully agree!!
 

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