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The Fans Problem With Madonna


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I was just being facetious. Although I did recently read that some uppity bitch claimed Einstein embraced Christianity upon his death bed and rejected his theories. It's a total falsehood, but it still establishes how potent other people's opinions can be after we die.

 

Madonna holds the key if legacy is important to her. I don't expect her to see her career that way as she is just living her life, but she is an icon. She has had such an enormous influence. Until a few years ago, one could honestly say we are just living in Madonna's world...Not so much today. That is essentially her own doing. Perhaps this was intentional. Still, it sucks as a fan to watch her fade slightly due to her determination to be contemporary in style. You'd think she'd know better. 

 

I guess the bottom line I am finding in all the dialog is that everyone seems to be blaming the radio for being ageist, when it is actually the public. They are the ones who reject collectively. 

Dude, just enjoy the ride.  No need to riddle it with philosophy and expectations. What's the point of being a fan if your going to dissect every flaw of hers?  Her life IS her legacy and it continues to be.  

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Maybe that is because of the topic of this thread but in general I found out that this forum seems to be mainly for criticising Madonna (I mentioned that already in the Mariah Carey thread in the other artists section). I misinterpreted the purpose of this forum in the beginning but I get use to it now :)

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Maybe that is because of the topic of this thread but in general I found out that this forum seems to be mainly for criticising Madonna (I mentioned that already in the Mariah Carey thread in the other artists section). I misinterpreted the purpose of this forum in the beginning but I get use to it now :)

Well, it doesn't only happen here.  It happens at most of the Madonna groups anymore. There are a base of fans who think they should be able to criticize her freely.  And certainly, they have every free right to do so, but some complain about the craziest things. Many times it is something they have no control over or based on assumptions.  Sure, I don't like everything she does, but the things I do enjoy from her take precedence. Never in my 30 plus years of being a fan did I think that I should bitch and moan about Madonna or being a fan.  She's been a great escape for me.  The moment I expect her to entertain me in a certain fashion,  is the moment I no longer am a fan.  Being a fan shouldn't be what I expect from her, it's about how I enjoy how she chooses to entertain me.  The moment I am no longer interested; I move on. :)

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Are we coming with categories of when someone is a fan or isn't? Or what a forum is for or not? 

I don't think there is a "fans problem" with madonna. It seems we, the Madonna fans, have a problem with each other.

:Madonna056:

I do believe this to be true.  And let's be fair, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I respect that!  I would never begin to think that anyone should not be able to express how they feel about Madonna whether it's favorable or not.  Though, I do see a lot of issues and drama emerge based on constant negativity and criticism brought to a Madonna discussion.  I don't see it happen much here, but at other groups/forums some tend to resort to belittling and/or insulting others when trying to drive home their 'right' to post how they feel about Madonna.  And sadly, I see a lot of great fans turn away from fan forums/groups because they fear they will get attacked for daring to speak up against constant negativity/criticism thrown at Madonna.  Again, I'm not saying that a fan forum should simply be devoted to loving everything she does. There certainly should be a healthy discourse regarding the good and the bad.  Though, we also must remember that a fan forum is erected in appreciation to the artist or subject it's about, not a place for certain people to constantly nitpick and criticize that artist, subject or its fans.  :)

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Guest ArthurBadin

I do believe this to be true.  And let's be fair, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I respect that!  I would never begin to think that anyone should not be able to express how they feel about Madonna whether it's favorable or not.  Though, I do see a lot of issues and drama emerge based on constant negativity and criticism brought to a Madonna discussion.  I don't see it happen much here, but at other groups/forums some tend to resort to belittling and/or insulting others when trying to drive home their 'right' to post how they feel about Madonna.  And sadly, I see a lot of great fans turn away from fan forums/groups because they fear they will get attacked for daring to speak up against constant negativity/criticism thrown at Madonna.  Again, I'm not saying that a fan forum should be simply devoted to loving everything she does. There certainly should be a healthy discourse regarding the good and the bad.  Though, we also must remember that a fan forum is erected in appreciation to the artist or subject it's about, not a place for certain people to constantly nitpick and criticize everything.  :)

I wouldn't come here to this thread since I believe this is a sterile, stupid and more-pleased-to-newer-fans discussion, but anyway, the point is:

Main problem fans have with M is: Guy-O. Caresse Henry should be haunting her since she's dead. And, honestly, I'd do the same if I were her. Period.

And if I look for a shining, brilliant place where Madonna is all wonderful, all desire-fullfiller, all "she still does the best and she'll never let to do it so", for sure, I'd rather choose some delusional place such as MadonnaNation.

And, for sure, do you really believe Madonna loves her "all-all-all the joy" fans? You ought to take a note on her Rolling Stone interview from 2005. She rides away from fans like those (or she rided, as she changed suddenly her mind during MDNA era).

Again, I'm not negative, I'm realistic. If I cannot live in the tiny bubble of "L-U-V Madonna", I have my point of view. Of course others have their own points of view. And so we live in the Madonna fans spectrum.

I used to have my days when Madonna was for me something like Jesus for the Christians but after knowing her a little more I was convinced I should act different.

And, no, I'm not a Madonna hater. I could be if I would, but I'm not. I'm just critical about her. I even prefer the way she's presenting right now, all kids and film. It's the best for her, it's the way she found to keep alive and I praise her for that. I won't claim anymore about she's not doing my favourite song on tour or she's not charting like I wanted her to be. She's the Madonna of 10's, right now, she is who she is. Sorry if you don't believe in what you're hearing about her priorities on her Instagram (maybe I'm being the last critical one here, so?), but she's happy, she's fine, she will do the music she wanna do, she will do the film she wanna do, and so the antics, and so her "social activism", and period.

Sometimes it's better facing the reality as it is and understand things are not the same as they used to be. People change, evolve, become who they want. If they cannot do this they don't take delight on full freedom and happiness. Even unemployed people like me can be who they want, why not a "luckily employed" as she told about herself on that damned speech on MDNA World Tour?

And, for granted, it's not a question of "being hostilized by denouncing such horrible/negative/demented wave against Madonna", it's a question of knowing where you do your footsteps. For sure there are places where you're just not allowed to criticize her. From those places I want full distance. I want to express myself; if I'm sounding bad for some people, patience, everyone's their entitled opinions. There's a big difference about being a palladine of the "good name of Madonna" and being a jack*ss: everyone has their history, their conflicts, their fightings and their scandals about being a Madonna fan, for sure; that's what you have when you have an idol who is so polarizing. We are different, we think different, period. If people don't understand the simple, minimal conception about it they shouldn't present themselves in a place where diversity of opinions is tolerated. Enough said.

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I wouldn't come here to this thread since I believe this is a sterile, stupid and more-pleased-to-newer-fans discussion, but anyway, the point is:

Main problem fans have with M is: Guy-O. Caresse Henry should be haunting her since she's dead. And, honestly, I'd do the same if I were her. Period.

And if I look for a shining, brilliant place where Madonna is all wonderful, all desire-fullfiller, all "she still does the best and she'll never let to do it so", for sure, I'd rather choose some delusional place such as MadonnaNation.

And, for sure, do you really believe Madonna loves her "all-all-all the joy" fans? You ought to take a note on her Rolling Stone interview from 2005. She rides away from fans like those (or she rided, as she changed suddenly her mind during MDNA era).

Again, I'm not negative, I'm realistic. If I cannot live in the tiny bubble of "L-U-V Madonna", I have my point of view. Of course others have their own points of view. And so we live in the Madonna fans spectrum.

I used to have my days when Madonna was for me something like Jesus for the Christians but after knowing her a little more I was convinced I should act different.

And, no, I'm not a Madonna hater. I could be if I would, but I'm not. I'm just critical about her. I even prefer the way she's presenting right now, all kids and film. It's the best for her, it's the way she found to keep alive and I praise her for that. I won't claim anymore about she's not doing my favourite song on tour or she's not charting like I wanted her to be. She's the Madonna of 10's, right now, she is who she is. Sorry if you don't believe in what you're hearing about her priorities on her Instagram (maybe I'm being the last critical one here, so?), but she's happy, she's fine, she will do the music she wanna do, she will do the film she wanna do, and so the antics, and so her "social activism", and period.

Sometimes it's better facing the reality as it is and understand things are not the same as they used to be. People change, evolve, become who they want. If they cannot do this they don't take delight on full freedom and happiness. Even unemployed people like me can be who they want, why not a "luckily employed" as she told about herself on that damned speech on MDNA World Tour?

And, for granted, it's not a question of "being hostilized by denouncing such horrible/negative/demented wave against Madonna", it's a question of knowing where you do your footsteps. For sure there are places where you're just not allowed to criticize her. From those places I want full distance. I want to express myself; if I'm sounding bad for some people, patience, everyone's their entitled opinions. There's a big difference about being a palladine of the "good name of Madonna" and being a jack*ss: everyone has their history, their conflicts, their fightings and their scandals about being a Madonna fan, for sure; that's what you have when you have an idol who is so polarizing. We are different, we think different, period. If people don't understand the simple, minimal conception about it they shouldn't present themselves in a place where diversity of opinions is tolerated. Enough said.

I I were you, I wouldn't get so defensive.   :)   My post above as well as the others who posted, wasn't referring to you personally, yet you feel compelled to comment in a defensive way, describing why you dislike another fan forum as well as trying to defend why it's okay for people to NOT to kiss her ass. Again, no one here is asking anyone to like everything she does.  This is just a discussion... and it's been quite civil. And yes,  I am completely aware there are other groups/forums where this thread would have spun completely out of control by now with members taking swipes at each other. 

 

My final thoughts; I would assume most of our purposes in why we come to this community is to share why we love, appreciate and celebrate this woman named Madonna.   :kissy:

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Guest ArthurBadin

Hmm? No one has alluded once you were an "Madonna hater" in this this thread?  In fact, If I were you, I wouldn't get so defensive. My post above as well as the others who posted, wasn't referring to you personally, yet you feel compelled to comment in a defensive way, describing why you dislike another fan forum as well as trying to defend why it's okay for people to NOT to kiss her ass. Again, no one here is asking anyone to like everything she does.  This is just a discussion... and it's been quite civil. I know other groups/forums this thread would have spun this completely out of control by now with members taking swipes at each other. 

 

My final thoughts; I would assume most of our purposes in why we come to this community is to share why we love, appreciation and celebrate this woman named Madonna.  

Dear @@Liam, I suggest you go right to my last post on Bat-Fan's thread.  :kissy:  :heart:

Don't take any thing I said as related to you (in fact, it was, but... :smile: ). Just shine your light like you want to do. You're free to do it. :angel:

As Madonna would tell in that unreleased song,

"Hold on to your heart, you can make a brand new start, just believe in your dreams, make yourself feel loved and be happy."

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Acting her age or not acting her age - I just want some music :lol: :lol: I think lots of people want it to be another LAP or True Blue etc, I know I'd love to, but honestly I don't think that would happen and also, it would never be the same as those albums because you are never going to be able to have the same feelings you did as for your favourite albums I think. Just take it as it comes (as long as there won't be any damn rap!) :lol:

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I do believe this to be true.  And let's be fair, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I respect that!  I would never begin to think that anyone should not be able to express how they feel about Madonna whether it's favorable or not.  Though, I do see a lot of issues and drama emerge based on constant negativity and criticism brought to a Madonna discussion.  I don't see it happen much here, but at other groups/forums some tend to resort to belittling and/or insulting others when trying to drive home their 'right' to post how they feel about Madonna.  And sadly, I see a lot of great fans turn away from fan forums/groups because they fear they will get attacked for daring to speak up against constant negativity/criticism thrown at Madonna.  Again, I'm not saying that a fan forum should simply be devoted to loving everything she does. There certainly should be a healthy discourse regarding the good and the bad.  Though, we also must remember that a fan forum is erected in appreciation to the artist or subject it's about, not a place for certain people to constantly nitpick and criticize that artist, subject or its fans.  :)

 

I don't know about the other forums as this is the only one I read and participate in.

 

I don't mean to provoke but...could it be that some opinions just push people's buttons? or the opinions just hurt them because it's an intensively different standpoint?

 

it seems it boils down to the same thing time and time again: if someone doesn't agree with an opinion, it's somewhat painted to appear unimportant, silly or stupid. and that is the true negative thing about the whole discussions - to me at least.

 

i understand if an opinion rubs people the wrong way about subjects close at heart (that's why we're here, we feel passionate about madonna; for one or many facets of her career and incarnations).

 

but i also believe that strong personalities can deal with "uncomfortable" opinions that might look like one-dimensional negativity at first glance.

 

perhaps it's about whether you're somebody who views the glass as half full or half empty.

and who's to say that "half full" is always the better perspective? because it's easy-going and "positive"? disney/technicolor/fairy-tale mentality?

...i think we can all agree to disagree. I welcome critical comments and opinions as long as there is substance to them. one can learn from them, improve, even come up with innovative ideas from "criticism". and some people who feel passionate about something or someone will have the tendency to look for improvements, growth, innovation. i don't think there's anything wrong with that.

 

i know i learned and am still learning a lot from the discussions on this forum, and especially from the opinions that are not all cheerful, easy-going and, sorry, often times also superficial.

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I don't know about the other forums as this is the only one I read and participate in.

 

I don't mean to provoke but...could it be that some opinions just push people's buttons? or the opinions just hurt them because it's an intensively different standpoint?

 

it seems it boils down to the same thing time and time again: if someone doesn't agree with an opinion, it's somewhat painted to appear unimportant, silly or stupid. and that is the true negative thing about the whole discussions - to me at least.

 

i understand if an opinion rubs people the wrong way about subjects close at heart (that's why we're here, we feel passionate about madonna; for one or many facets of her career and incarnations).

 

but i also believe that strong personalities can deal with "uncomfortable" opinions that might look like one-dimensional negativity at first glance.

 

perhaps it's about whether you're somebody who views the glass as half full or half empty.

and who's to say that "half full" is always the better perspective? because it's easy-going and "positive"? disney/technicolor/fairy-tale mentality?

...i think we can all agree to disagree. I welcome critical comments and opinions as long as there is substance to them. one can learn from them, improve, even come up with innovative ideas from "criticism". and some people who feel passionate about something or someone will have the tendency to look for improvements, growth, innovation. i don't think there's anything wrong with that.

 

i know i learned and am still learning a lot from the discussions on this forum, and especially from the opinions that are not all cheerful, easy-going and, sorry, often times also superficial.

Don't disagree with anything you posted.  In short, I just want to clarify my comments regarding the issue I have with "negativity" and "criticism" is usually from those who are constant at it... like the "Debbie Downer" of the community.  Rarely participates in talking about the things they enjoy about Madonna, etc, etc.  They come off disgruntled and non-appreciative of Madonna.  I  hope that makes sense.  Of course, I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone at this community, but I'm sure many of us have run into people like that at various fan groups.  :wink:

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A forum is a place of debate and discussion, and as this is a Madonna forum, I would hope anyone voicing an opinion is doing so because they are appreciative of and passionate about their interest in Madonna. Otherwise, what's the point?! I honestly understand why negative opinions irk many...I have been on a variety of Madonna forums for almost two decades now, and frankly, as the forums come and go, so do the fans. A lot of this was because of an inability to pursue fair debate without personal attacks. Things escalate quickly when you get personal, and it is a major disservice to our community. I have only recently reinvested in open discussions of this sort outside of personal relationships with fans I have met over the years, and so I hope we are all able to understand that if a person takes the time to invest in writing a thoughtful post of praise or criticism that it is only to further serve the deepening of our understanding and love of the woman we have been observing and analyzing for many a decade! 

 

To suggest that a person be less cerebral and just enjoy things is, in my opinion, disrespectful and counterintuitive to a forum. In no way would I ever tell anyone else how to view something so deeply personal! I love reading well-developed essays and diatribes about Madonna. She is endlessly fascinating in so many ways, but times they are a changing and sometimes we are just trying to make sense of how our traditional views on aspects of Madonna's career have evolved and how they fit in as the pop cultural landscape radically evolves with time and generational shifts. 

 

I hope everyone who has expressed themselves in this thread feels the same way, and continues to do so. This thread is probably one of the most interesting I have participated in for some time. Everything is relative and in constant flux! Just today, after seeing pictures of Madonna at Diddy's documentary screening and coming out of an LA workout I got excited and felt my heart warm. So just know that a different opinion doesn't define the entirety of one's fandom and admiration, nor the journey that fandom has taken us on individually! Keep the faith!

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It was not my intention to cause such a stir here, I was just observating, nothing more :thinker:

But you should all be honest, the majority written here in this forum is criticism towards Madonna, no matter what topic.

What fascinates me the most is that negative posts get many "likes" but when you are positive or celebrating something it´s many times just overlooked or you even get attacked or mocked (although that is rare), especially if you like stuff that many seem to hate with a passion.

So the overall tone of this forum is not a secret but it was just my respond to Liam ("What´s the point of being a fan if your going to dissect every flaw of hers?").

It even gets more obvious when you check the "other artists" section and see how some on the contrary are highly praising their other favorite artists which is also fine and nothing wrong with it but just a bit too revealing sometimes :wink:

Maybe (!) for a change or for a bit diversity it would be nice to come up sometimes with something on a more positive note too, so that all fan mentalities would be better served in the forum but that is just my personal suggestion. For example: The Rebel Heart DVD thread is an absolutely depressing place :sad:

But I repeat: this is all OK with me and doesn´t bother me at all, why should it ? everyone has different intentions here.

Although honestly it irritated me a bit when I was new here.

To end on a positive note :): despite of all the criticism about Madonna in the forum this site is the best because of all the amazing downloads, absolutely fantastic stuff :heart: :heart: :heart:

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A forum is a place of debate and discussion, and as this is a Madonna forum, I would hope anyone voicing an opinion is doing so because they are appreciative of and passionate about their interest in Madonna. Otherwise, what's the point?! I honestly understand why negative opinions irk many...I have been on a variety of Madonna forums for almost two decades now, and frankly, as the forums come and go, so do the fans. A lot of this was because of an inability to pursue fair debate without personal attacks. Things escalate quickly when you get personal, and it is a major disservice to our community. I have only recently reinvested in open discussions of this sort outside of personal relationships with fans I have met over the years, and so I hope we are all able to understand that if a person takes the time to invest in writing a thoughtful post of praise or criticism that it is only to further serve the deepening of our understanding and love of the woman we have been observing and analyzing for many a decade! 

 

To suggest that a person be less cerebral and just enjoy things is, in my opinion, disrespectful and counterintuitive to a forum. In no way would I ever tell anyone else how to view something so deeply personal! I love reading well-developed essays and diatribes about Madonna. She is endlessly fascinating in so many ways, but times they are a changing and sometimes we are just trying to make sense of how our traditional views on aspects of Madonna's career have evolved and how they fit in as the pop cultural landscape radically evolves with time and generational shifts. 

 

I hope everyone who has expressed themselves in this thread feels the same way, and continues to do so. This thread is probably one of the most interesting I have participated in for some time. Everything is relative and in constant flux! Just today, after seeing pictures of Madonna at Diddy's documentary screening and coming out of an LA workout I got excited and felt my heart warm. So just know that a different opinion doesn't define the entirety of one's fandom and admiration, nor the journey that fandom has taken us on individually! Keep the faith!

 

spot on.

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... like the "Debbie Downer" of the community.  

 

that's exactly what i mean. i actually think calling them "debbie downers" just because they have an opinion that might polarize belittles their point of view.

i don't believe in segregating between "good, cheerful, positive fans" and "debbie downer fans".

the "debbie downers" could also say, the "positive ones" may be following M's stuff like sheep without much of differentiated opinion, which can indeed be viewed as superficial.

conclusion: nobody is a "better" fan for one or the other opinion expressed here.

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Well the Woman in Music Buisness always being critized for what they are doing.

Men NOT!!

Madonna try to crack these Walls in Peoples minds...and to provoke is better than

crying in her sheeds..

That's not her ... and i don't want her that way

 

I give a shit what the Press said, the last Album has Room for every Fan of her....it's an ageless

Masterpiece.

 

and sorry the Fans aged too...take a look in the Mirror.

 

I never had a Problem with her age...i have more Problems if there is shit Music in 

20 Tracks...and that will never happen.

 

AMEN

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that's exactly what i mean. i actually think calling them "debbie downers" just because they have an opinion might polarize belittles their point of view.

i don't believe in segregating between "good, cheerful, positive fans" and "debbie downer fans".

the "debbie downers" could also say, the "positive ones" may be following M's stuff like sheep without much of differentiated opinion, which can indeed be viewed as superficial.

conclusion: nobody is a "better" fan for one or the other opinion expressed here.

 

 

Keep in mind where the term "Debbie Downer" derives from. I'm not just talking about a fan randomly criticizing or speaking negatively about a few things they might be disappointed with.  I'm talking about the type of person that makes the majority of their posts about their disappointments of Madonna if not criticizing her all the time.  You can't tell me that you haven't come across people at forums like that, on any topic.  There are a number of people who do it at Madonna forums.  They come in and just rain on everyone's parade while rarely if ever offer a positive conversation or why they are supportive of her or a why they are a fan in the first place.  My comments weren't about segregating anyone. My comments aren't about pointing out who is the better fan here. It's pointing out that there are some who come in and simply criticize her at any chance they can.  They defend their right to do so to the point it causes more friction in the community.  This is the type of issue I have with certain people who come into forums that offer constant negativity.  And yes, I do question those people who come in and do that. I do question why they are at a fan forum when they spend majority of their time trying to criticize Madonna. 

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you are right but on the other hand I could ask:

Is someone automatically a fan just because having an opinion about her ?

 

the obvious answer is: of course not.

and we could continue this question game forever: 

is anyone who has a negative opinion on something madonna says or does automatically a bad fan or non-fan for that matter?

Also no.

so the questions lead to nowhere.

 

perhaps we should just accept other opinions. how about that?

 

Keep in mind where the term "Debbie Downer" derives from. I'm not just talking about a fan randomly criticizing or speaking negatively about a few things they might be disappointed with.  I'm talking about the type of person that makes the majority of their posts about their disappointments of Madonna if not criticizing her all the time.  You can't tell me that you haven't come across people at forums like that, on any topic.  There are a number of people who do it at Madonna forums.  They come in and just rain on everyone's parade while rarely if ever offer a positive conversation or why they are supportive of her or a why they are a fan in the first place.  My comments weren't about segregating anyone. My comments aren't about pointing out who is the better fan here. It's pointing out that there are some who come in and simply criticize her at any chance they can.  They defend their right to do so to the point it causes more friction in the community.  This is the type of issue I have with certain people who come into forums that offer constant negativity.  And yes, I do question those people who come in and do that. I do question why they are at a fan forum when they spend majority of their time trying to criticize Madonna. 

 

as is said before, i don't participate in other forums, so I don't know who those regulars naysayers are supposed to be.

to be honest with you, i have seen one or the other negative post here that did bring up questions for me but most times, i tend to forget about them, as they do not matter to me.

they don't curtail my joy of dealing with madonna one bit.

i don't like to single out people and honestly, i would have huge difficulties if i tried to do that on here with the regular members.

trolls are everywhere, always have been. but as long as we don't feed them, things should be ok.

 

perhaps it would be good to be a little careful with categorizing people without knowing them. some use the forums just to vent and act out in ways they probably wouldn't in real life. an old story really.

 

all i'm saying is that labelling someone debbie downer just feeds them and also categorizes them in a bad way. just my thought on this. you don't have to agree with me.

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